Fake Mettlach

This topic contains 5 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Steve 1 day, 11 hours ago.

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  • #36873 Reply

    Ron

    There are two fake Mettlach PUG 1526s on ebay, 292630269548 and 223014120560. Neither one show a decoration number nor have the white interior inside the stein. I notified both sellers, but they didn’t change their listings.

  • #36889 Reply

    Steve

    Contrary to your claim, these are not “fake” Mettlach steins. These are bodies made by the Mettlach V&B factory from a series of at least 5 POG city steins- Koln, Stuttgart, Nurnberg, Berlin, Frankfurt are the ones I know of- decorated, like most of not all POGS, by an outside firm. They all have a main scene and 2 side scenes. The lids are metal (not pewter) and they were made most likely post WWI. None of them have the white interior (not all of the steins did such as the Bavaria series and very late production).

    • #36891 Reply

      Ron

      Steve,

      I am aware of the Bavaria series (forms in the 30000s) of Mettlach steins that did not have a white interior. I am not aware of any form 1526 being made without a white interior. What is your source for that information? What firm applied the decorations?

  • #36892 Reply

    Steve

    There are no marks on any of the 1526 form number POGS with those City scenes which I have seen over the years so I do not know the decorator. The liter mark, handle and incised “1526” on the base are all consistent with other Mettlach form 1526 steins. Those City steins all have a green stamped Mettlach abbey mark which is identical to the stamped mark on the bottom of the 1929 version of the form 2900 Quilmes Brewery stein. I have seen a number of examples over the past 30 years of similar late manufacture by the V&B Mettlach factory without the white interior. There are also 1526 form number Bavaria steins. The one thing I mention when I lecture or write an article is that you should never say there are no exceptions to the “Mettlach rules” because, as soon as you do, an exception occurs.

    • #36894 Reply

      Ron

      Steve,

      I did not get a hit for a form 1526 Bavaria-type stein. I even went through all the form 1526s and did not see one that was Bavaria-type. Are there any articles on these steins that do not have the white interior? I have never seen a good explanation on why the Bavaria-type steins lack a white interior. I always assumed it was to imitate the other stoneware and ceramic steins Bavarians drank their beer out of in the bars and restaurants.

      Are there examples of Mettlach decorations where the stein does not have a white interior? I suppose this could have been a cost cutting move so the outside decorator could be more competitive. Their use of tin for the lid instead of pewter certainly kept their cost down.

      You refer to it as POG. Is that because you assume the outside decorator bought it glazed or is there a way to distinguish a PUG from a POG? I am aware of outside decorators using Mettlach steins for their decorations. I have one that was hand painted and is signed by the decorator. I am also aware of a Mettlach stein that was used to make an imitation of Rookwood, including copying one of their images. It was said to be hand painted, but I suspect it was more likely a printed transfer. These examples though would have been on a small scale.

      There are two examples of steins that may have been decorated by outside decorators on a large scale. I did an article on the Beer Map Stein (Mettlach Form 285) in Nov 2014. There is a four-digit number (1096) on the bottom that I assumed was the decoration number, but it is not consistent with the size shown on other steins and does not say “Decoration.” It is not listed in the Mettlach catalogs. I did find an old newspaper article that mentioned that stein, but unfortunately it did not mention who decorated it. The other is Form 728. I have never seen this stein with a Mettlach mark on it and the Form number appears on the inside of the bottom rim. It is normally called parian, but it is not like the other parian steins I have seen. This stein looks more like white porcelain stein, but I believe it is stoneware. I have seen several different decorations on this type of stein.

  • #36898 Reply

    Steve

    Ron- The 1526 Bavaria pieces were discussed in the series on Bavaria steins in the December, 2009, March, 2010, June, 2010 and September, 2010 Prosits.
    There are no particular articles solely on Mettlach bodies that do not have white interiors that I am aware of but the non-Bavaria form 1526 steins that I have seen are all very late production. In those, it was likely a cost cutting measure. With the Bavaria marked steins, it was likely that it was copying a style that was in vogue at the time.
    I am not assuming that the steins that started this thread are POGS. I know they are based on the examples I have in my collection. Mettlach sold a large number of blank bodies of all types that were then handpainted or had a transfer applied to them. You can tell the difference between POG and PUG by the texture of the surface, whether the glaze is shiny and continuous over the stein body and decoration, whether the decoration is faded/worn or scratched and generally (with the exception of specialty steins) the presence/absence of a decoration number. The beer map stein that you refer to is a POG. I have the same decoration on a 1526 body and there is no number on the bottom of the stein other than the 1526, the date and the other 2 digit number. By the way, as noted in the Bavaria articles, sometimes there is only a number and not always something to indicate it is a decoration number. Parian steins are a totally different and separate type/style of stein that will be the subject of a future Prosit article but none of them that I have seen have the white glaze interior that we are speaking about.

    I think that answers everything. If not, or there are additional things, let me know. Steve

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