Please help Identify and value this stein!

This topic contains 6 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Walt 4 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #27791 Reply

    Ben Germann

    I have this old stein of my fathers. I have conversed with Chris Wheeler of He tells me it is a Johann Hiedl and Sohn, per the mark in the lid and that Carl Moos is the designer. I have been unable to find it or anything like it on the internet. Can someone please help me with it? Thank you for your interest.

  • #27793 Reply

    Lyn Ayers

    Hi, Ben. What kind of information are you hoping to find? As a guess I would date it between 1900 and 1930. I cannot determine who the actual manufacturer of the stein body was, but most probably was either Marzi & Remy or Merkelbach & Wick, however they usually marked their pieces.
    The lid is awesome; i am not sure i have seen a lid quite like it.
    HOpe this helps.

  • #27799 Reply

    Ben Germann

    Okay, This is what I know.
    According to the mark in the lid, It was made by Johann Hiedl and Sohn.
    According to they only made steinis from 1906-1914.
    Also per, they bought stein bodies from Marzi and Remy. I also read somewhere that they didn’t always mark their pieces in this time frame but I didn’t write that down with its source.
    Chris Wheeler told me that the artwork was done by Carl Moos, a famous advertising artist, but it seems he didn’t become famous for several years after this.

    So, I suppose my pointed questions are as follows:

    1. What does the words on the from “Grotte Munchen” translate to in English?
    2. Would this be a one of a kind? I can’t seem to find one like it, similar to it or anyone else that has seen anything like it.
    3. Would this be an original work by Moos or a design of his that was duplicated?
    4. And lastly, what would be a reasonable value for the thing?

    And I may have other questions as time goes by.

    Thanks for your consideration, help and advice.


  • #27800 Reply


    I have the 1-liter version of this stein, same lid. Yes, Carl Moos initials. One difference, mine has the word “TIEF” (deep) in blue lettering centered above the heads of the two salamanders. I have it in my head that these were produced for a chain of Bierstube in multiple cities, Munich obviously being one. I would translate as (Deep) Grotto, seeming to imply that they were Keller. These are quite remarkable steins to hold in the hand, the lid is VERY massive and heavy, and the theme is very unusual.

    • #27804 Reply

      Ben Germann

      thanks for the information.

      Would you be willing to post a photo of the 1 Liter?

      I am guessing it isn’t worth a lot. My plan is to gift it to my step-son who is a certified beer cicerone.

    • #27805 Reply


      Ben, I paid dearly for mine, and if I were currently buying, would also pay dearly for yours. Carl Moos is important, and the lid and the decoration on this stein are very unusual, and the piece is rare. I’m working on photos.

  • #27801 Reply


    I found a little more information which was sent to me by a friend who lives in Munich when I acquired my stein. “Tief Grotte” was a line of bars (like McDonalds!?), one in Augsburg, one in Speyer and obviously in Munich. Think there were five of these bars in the south of Germany.

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