Regimental Twins

This topic contains 7 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by  Ron 9 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #36572 Reply

    John Rizzo
    Participant

    Sorry for first post

    See attached photos of two steins that are from the same Infantry Regiment ( 3rd Westphalian, “Baron Von Sparr” Nr.16th Koln) that look identical. They have the same years of service (1899 – 1901), same design and the same decorator (Heinr. Worringen from Koln). One is from the 3rd company and the other from the 6th company. I believe this regiment consisted of 6 companies of around 60 reservists per company.
    Is it common to have 2 steins from the same regiment with the same years of service? I have read both Major John L. Harrell’s and R. Ron Heiligenstein’s books on Regimental steins and to the best of my knowledge this unit is not unique/rare. I have also reviewed years of The Stein Auction Companies catalogs with no success at finding others from this regiment. What are the odds of finding others from this regiment with the same years of service? Is the Nr 16th Koln more unique then most Infantry regiments?
    Do you recommend other books on Regimentals which I can purchase?
    Thanks in advance for all your help.

    close up
    Left side
    Right side
    Back 1
    Bottom
    Back 2

  • #36574 Reply

    Ron

    John,

    Your photos do not work. According to Germany’s Army and Navy copyrighted in 1899, an Infantry Regiment consisted of three Battalions and each Battalion consisted of four Companies. Peace time strength was 570 for a Battalion and war time strength was 1,000. A Company would be about 142 in peace and 250 in war. Heiligenstein’s book lists slightly different war time strength because he lists only the reservists. Thus the total peace time strength of a Regiment would be around 1,700 men and the total war time strength of a Regiment would be around 3,000 men. Not all reservists would purchase a stein and not all steins would have survived over the years due to time and the wars.

    Further complicating matters, reservists had a range of choices in designing their steins – scenes, lids, finials, name and rank, etc. Finding two alike (except for the name and rank) might be rare but not impossible. Finding a collector that had two alike would be even rarer since most collectors would want variety in their collection.

  • #36578 Reply

    John Rizzo
    Participant

    Hope this works. I have also added photos of steins to “MySteinCollection”.com” under John Rizzo

    Twin Regimentals

  • #36579 Reply

    John Rizzo
    Participant

    Ron,

    Thanks for your help.

    From what is inscribed on the steins: They from the 3rd Battalion but from companies 3 and 6. Again this does not correspond with my research and what you describe above. This why I am questioning it. I may be reading the inscribed description wrong that is located under the handle.

    Is there an easy way to locate the Battalion?

    Thanks

    • #36613 Reply

      Ron

      John,

      There are differences in your two steins. The lids are different styles. The final appear the same except one is missing the spike on the helmet, possibly broken off. The scene on the body is slightly different too. One has buildings by the lake whereas the other shows several ships. The dress and shield held by the lady are also different.

      The unit normally is applied around the body rather than under the handle. I agree they say Company 3 and 6. Maybe the companies in the Regiment were numbered consecutively from 1 to 12. I don’t see the Battalion listed, so maybe that is how you tell the Battalion. Battalion 1 would be Companies 1-4, Battalion 2 would be Companies 5-8 and Battalion 3 would be Companies 9-12.

  • #36599 Reply

    John Rizzo
    Participant
  • #36600 Reply

    John Rizzo
    Participant

  • #36601 Reply

    John Rizzo
    Participant
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