This topic contains 20 replies, has 2 voices, and was last updated by Ron 7 years, 6 months ago.
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The mention of the 10/20L capacity mark in another thread reminded me of this mark. Has anyone seen this before ?
Rich
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It’s a mystery to me, but the middle section may refer to 5 deciliter (.5l).
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I think it looks like a chemical formula. I wouldn’t drink out of it.
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Perhaps a picture of the whole stein might aid the analysis.
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Stein seems to be a cleric and the lid is engraved Semper Idem and the name Sumpf.
(Semper idem was a popular expression with English Puritans during the seventeenth century to refer to The Immutable Mercy of Jesus Christ. This Latin phrase meaning “Always The Same” was used when preaching on the popular text from Hebrews 13:8) Seems to fit the image.
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My dictionary defines Sumpf as marsh, swamp or morass.
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Sumpf is probably someone’s last name. A white page search showed 44 Sumpfs in the U.S. It also showed 100 Marshes.
John Piet
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Yes, it is Swiss.
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What is Swiss? Sumpf or the stein?
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The “z” refers to Zurich. This is the official Swiss way of marking a tested capacity. Martyn
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Martyn,
Interesting. Is there an on-line source for that?
Ron
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Ron,I don’t know of an on line source.I think I first read of it in an old Prosit. If you look at stein marks and go to Buchecker and co you will see a swiss mark for Lucerne on a stein.Martyn
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I have just added a Zurich version on my Bruder Thannheuser page.
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Ron,I have traced the source of my info. It was in a copy of a letter to Chris Wheeler from an Egon Buchecker, a Swiss importer of Westerwald steins since the early 1930’s. Chris,in the interest of sharing information,posted a copy of this in Stein Talk on the 7th feb 2008. To quote: “To prove the date of decoration,there might be a sandblasted gauge mark on the upper part reading LU+68 (as in 1968 in which the stein was gauged by the official Gaugemaster of Lucern) and below 3 or 4 or 5dl (tested capacity) signed Egon Buchecker” Hope this helps. Martyn
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Martyn and Chris,
Thanks for the information. If the “Z” is Zurich, is the “+” a plus sign or the bold equilateral cross that appears on the Swiss flag? Also, what do you think the “2” means?
Rich, if you can get the depth of the stein to the line and the radius, we can calculate if it is a 1/2 L capacity. The stein appears to be the typical 1/2 L stein. It also resembles steins made by Marzi & Remy. The scene looks like it is depicting the Biedermeier period.
Martyn, I couldn’t find any articles in Prosit, based on a quick scan of the articles by subject 1965-1997 and by title 1998-2014. I did find an interesting article by Roy De Selms in the Dec 2010 Prosit, Der Masskrug and Capacity Marks. Jordan Vandenberg’s HB Stein Blog also shows a Mass mark. The Beer Stein Library also has an article by David Harr and John McGregor on capacity marks by manufacturer. This article is also available at thepatriotexchange.com. Hopefully others will see this post and find it useful as one source listing several references for capacity marks.
Ron
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As I posted earlier, the marking appears to indicate 5 deciliter (.5 liter).
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Alex,
Since you didn’t state it as a fact, I provided a means for Rich to verify it.
Ron
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Thanks Ron. I should have asserted rather than speculated. However, I am warmed by the satisfaction that my initial speculation was validated by the subsequent postings of Martyn and Chris, and by examining the referred to Stein Marks illustrations. Prost!
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Ron,if one follows the explanation of the Swiss importer to Chris,then the plus sign is “plus” and the 2 is 2 years after 1900. What the mark is before 1900 I don’t know. I have a Mathaeser stein with “I+1” on it plus 4DL and some initials. I am assuming the “I” is for “INS” in Switerland, the date 1901,which looks right as the stoneware body has no inscription of the brewery,the initials could be those of the Gaugemaster but don’t quote me. I was assuming that I had read this in Prosit before I found the steintalk message from Chris so belay that. Martyn
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Rich,
I’m not sure, but it could have been a 1931 stein. Stein Marks shows two Swiss steins. The Buchecker stein is marked “L+1” with a “69” at the bottom. Chris says it means 1969 with a question mark. The Tannhauser stein is marked “Z+1” but no numbers are shown at the bottom. I think the “1” or “2” may mean something else. I haven’t seen the letter Martyn is referring to. I will have to check to see if the old SteinTalk archives are available yet.
Ron
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